Yes, they are. In my world, people argue that we go to war because in the immediate future, it's what we do for survival. I don't think it always makes sense, but it's what we have to do.
[There. Not here. None of them will be at war.]
Which version? His or mine?
Edited (i definitely freudianed in some mistakes) 2019-05-08 21:47 (UTC)
His. You can't speak for everyone on a voluntary basis. No one can lead us without leading all of us and no one can lead all of us if half can just ignore the whole committee business.
Incidentally I'm very manipulative and I don't think it's something to be ashamed of.
I don't think it would hurt to add that to the discussion, if you haven't already. [There are several threads of conversation that she's chosen not to follow any further—mostly for her sake. And mostly because Hafid and Matches have the firm belief that everything is about them or her shaming them or whatever, when sometimes they just provide excellent examples of how people shouldn't be behaving. If she had some of her delinquent buddies here? Hey, they'd work, too.]
Being manipulative is ... I think there are a good number of us who can be taken to task for it. But arguing for a political system while saying that I do nothing but manipulate others is contradictory in my experience. I know you might be saying that lightly. But sometimes manipulation is about seeing a system and pushing people into places. It's leading. I refuse to apologize for what I am and who I am and what that has meant for my people. And what skills I can bring to the table just because mentioning them at all is apparently disregarding what everyone else is capable of because I firmly believe that living according to some unseen fear might destroy us.
Because, as you've said, we won't all be united on this. And if we move forward based on that assumption, then we start excluding those who don't see this as survival. Or don't feel that they need to derive purpose from this. And when they aren't involved in that kind of mindset, they can slowly be pushed away.
Just as they attempted to do with me today, though I worry for anyone who didn't speak up or even those who did and have little experience among us.
[And it's why she's careful. Like a politician, she only recalls things she's been told. She never mentions people by name if it was something told to her in confidence. If something's been said openly: it's fair game. That's how it is among her people. Even if there were two thousand of them on the Ark, rumors flew around. They had a habit of doing that. And when it was the delinquents and a much smaller group as a result? Rumors still had a habit of doing that.
Clarke doesn't call it a bad thing to prove that someone should be less callous when he refuses to learn the lesson himself. Or to say that someone tried to exile one of their own, when it's the most public facing act of them all. She's cautious—but she knows that her beliefs and actions won't always be taken well. That's part of the burden of leadership. And of keeping them all from making or repeating mistakes she knows quite well.
They didn't ask her to do this. Someone could easily say that. She won't stop.
Maybe that's all manipulative. But she recalls Jaha's lessons about being a leader, and Lexa's lessons about being a leader, and even Dante's lessons. Bear it so they don't have to. She can take the brunt of it, and she'll apologize if her actions aren't well received.
That doesn't mean she'll stop.
She won't stop.]
Edited (i added some things) 2019-05-09 18:53 (UTC)
[ Shrug. He isn't convinced it would help, either, at this point, and even if it would, he hates politics. ]
I meant it. [ Lightly, but not. ] I'm extremely manipulative. It's a consequence of lying so much. Also because I like getting my own way, and also because I can't inspire people and they don't listen when I tell them what to do.
It is good to worry about the people who don't speak up, or who can't. And right to know you cannot speak for them.
[And again and again and again, though perhaps they'll be smarter about who they speak to before hand as a sounding board. Whoever they asked, it clearly wasn't enough of a broad opinion. Or, as Clarke learned, the type of people likely to push back against it.]
Do you mind if I make your point for you?
As for inspiration, I don't think it's really in what you say or how you act. It's what you'll do at any cost for the sake of your people. If that means lying and manipulating, then you're inspiring enough.
Yes. It will probably come up until someone does find a way to unify the Displaced, or else takes away our methods of communicating with each other and this urge to unite somehow dissipates.
I don't. [ Being manipulative, he thinks that certain people are probably less likely to listen to points coming from Clarke than anyone else, but, Clarke being Clarke, he expects her to do it anyway. ]
Very astute. Inspiration is a sort of manipulation if you think about it.
That it is. So is telling someone their resilience and willingness to act is inspirational. That's what someone did with me, but I needed to hear it when I did. It helped me keep going.
[Even if she turns it onto herself, she's well aware of the implication of what she just said to Gen mere moments before.]
Just don't make my life miserable because I decided to be a doctor like my mom.
Do you have a place already? I think my new job means I can actually break the lease on mine, but I'm not very picky about where I live. Kinda comes with the territory.
[Which he's seen in her dream: a pretty messed up world.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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I also think the council idea won't work.
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[There. Not here. None of them will be at war.]
Which version? His or mine?
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Incidentally I'm very manipulative and I don't think it's something to be ashamed of.
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Being manipulative is ... I think there are a good number of us who can be taken to task for it. But arguing for a political system while saying that I do nothing but manipulate others is contradictory in my experience. I know you might be saying that lightly. But sometimes manipulation is about seeing a system and pushing people into places. It's leading. I refuse to apologize for what I am and who I am and what that has meant for my people. And what skills I can bring to the table just because mentioning them at all is apparently disregarding what everyone else is capable of because I firmly believe that living according to some unseen fear might destroy us.
Because, as you've said, we won't all be united on this. And if we move forward based on that assumption, then we start excluding those who don't see this as survival. Or don't feel that they need to derive purpose from this. And when they aren't involved in that kind of mindset, they can slowly be pushed away.
Just as they attempted to do with me today, though I worry for anyone who didn't speak up or even those who did and have little experience among us.
[And it's why she's careful. Like a politician, she only recalls things she's been told. She never mentions people by name if it was something told to her in confidence. If something's been said openly: it's fair game. That's how it is among her people. Even if there were two thousand of them on the Ark, rumors flew around. They had a habit of doing that. And when it was the delinquents and a much smaller group as a result? Rumors still had a habit of doing that.
Clarke doesn't call it a bad thing to prove that someone should be less callous when he refuses to learn the lesson himself. Or to say that someone tried to exile one of their own, when it's the most public facing act of them all. She's cautious—but she knows that her beliefs and actions won't always be taken well. That's part of the burden of leadership. And of keeping them all from making or repeating mistakes she knows quite well.
They didn't ask her to do this. Someone could easily say that. She won't stop.
Maybe that's all manipulative. But she recalls Jaha's lessons about being a leader, and Lexa's lessons about being a leader, and even Dante's lessons. Bear it so they don't have to. She can take the brunt of it, and she'll apologize if her actions aren't well received.
That doesn't mean she'll stop.
She won't stop.]
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[ Shrug. He isn't convinced it would help, either, at this point, and even if it would, he hates politics. ]
I meant it. [ Lightly, but not. ] I'm extremely manipulative. It's a consequence of lying so much. Also because I like getting my own way, and also because I can't inspire people and they don't listen when I tell them what to do.
It is good to worry about the people who don't speak up, or who can't. And right to know you cannot speak for them.
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[And again and again and again, though perhaps they'll be smarter about who they speak to before hand as a sounding board. Whoever they asked, it clearly wasn't enough of a broad opinion. Or, as Clarke learned, the type of people likely to push back against it.]
Do you mind if I make your point for you?
As for inspiration, I don't think it's really in what you say or how you act. It's what you'll do at any cost for the sake of your people. If that means lying and manipulating, then you're inspiring enough.
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I don't. [ Being manipulative, he thinks that certain people are probably less likely to listen to points coming from Clarke than anyone else, but, Clarke being Clarke, he expects her to do it anyway. ]
Very astute. Inspiration is a sort of manipulation if you think about it.
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[Even if she turns it onto herself, she's well aware of the implication of what she just said to Gen mere moments before.]
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You wouldn't happen to need a roommate, would you?
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I'm absolutely for it.
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Do you have a place already? I think my new job means I can actually break the lease on mine, but I'm not very picky about where I live. Kinda comes with the territory.
[Which he's seen in her dream: a pretty messed up world.]
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I could find one.
[ Eugenides is exceedingly picky, but has also spent a not insignificant amount of time in prison, so the two sort of balance out. ]
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And you did steal rather nice blankets in New Tokyo.
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But I didn't because it's accurate. I didn't keep the blankets though.
[ He rarely keeps anything he steals. ]
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But thanks for clarifying just the same, Gen. I'm glad I'm aware.